Jul 16

ADHD Emotions: How to Manage Your Big Feelings

Who doesn’t love a good podcast? I know I do!

Whether I'm tackling mundane tasks or taking a walk in the woods, popping in my headphones and diving into an episode makes everything more enjoyable.

And one of the gems for all you ADHD enthusiasts out there is Eric Tivers' ADHD ReWired is always a favorite!

So I was thrilled when Eric invited me on to talk about all things ADHD emotions- a topic near and dear to my heart. And as you’ll hear, this episode starts out a bit personal- so if you’ve ever wondered what’s up with me and my connection to ADHD brains- well the first 10 minutes of this one is for you!

But don’t worry- we’re not going to bore you with my story alone– snoozefest! We’ve got lots else to cover too!

Here are some timestamps to help you navigate to the topics that interest you most:

3:31: My journey and the messy middle of ADHD diagnosis

5:50: Understanding the regulatory differences of ADHD brains

8:43: Exploring ADHD emotional symptoms and the three components of an ADHD experience

15:32: Differentiating between ADHD and other disorders like bipolar, BPD, and trauma when it comes to emotional outbursts in adults

22:08: The relationship between ADHD emotional lability and trauma

27:32: Building ADHD emotional regulation with the "Meltdown to Mastery" approach

30:21: Can intentional distraction be a helpful tool?

36:31: Identifying in-between emotions and nurturing conscientiousness

Can't listen right now? No worries! We've got you covered with a transcription below.

So, if you're ready to explore the exciting world of ADHD emotions, join us on this newest podcast episode! From the highs to the lows and all the surprises in between, emotions in ADHD are like fireworks on a warm summer night—explosive and captivating.

Remember, we're all in this together, embracing the quirks that make us uniquely awesome! Stay tuned and stay fabulous and as always- leave your comments, brilliant insights, or fabulous hacks below! ✨💪🎙️

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Okay, we're in the break now. Let's get on with the episode.

Welcome back to another episode of ADHD rewired. Today's guest is Marcy Caldwell. Marcy is a psychologist, writer and proud mom of two, who has been helping adults with ADHD thrive in their work, relationships and parenting for over 20 years. She is a passionate advocate for adults with ADHD and is dedicated to helping them create environments that unlock their unique genius of their brains. So we're going to talk today about emotional regulation. Marcy is the founder of a depth.org ad d p t, that org, which is the blog and digital resource for adults with ADHD. Also the owner of Rittenhouse. Rittenhouse. Yeah, okay, Rittenhouse psychological services, a practice specializing in adult ADHD in the Philadelphia area and the creator of meltdown to mastery. So let's just kind of dive into this. So how did you get into the world of ADHD?
First of all, thank you so much for having me. And I'm thrilled to be here. So I got into the world of ADHD in kind of a roundabout sort of way. When I first started out in psychology, I did a lot of psychological assessment. When you do psychological assessment with adults, you see a lot of folks with ADHD. I also had a therapy practice. And in the process of doing assessments, I would sometimes refer people for therapy. And after telling me their life story, they often didn't want to go find some other provider to them have to tell their life story to like em. So my practice started to fill with folks with ADHD at the same time I met my husband who has ADHD, all of a sudden, it just felt like my whole life was ADHD. And they don't teach about ADHD in grad school at all. I don't know if that was your experience, too. But it's kind of it. Yeah. You know, I think I got maybe one afternoon lecture on it in my whole six years. And I went out and sought out a lot more training, some mentorship and eventually kind of found that that was an area that I loved. I love ADHD brains. I love the way they work. I love the energy they bring to a room. I love the way they think creatively. I really enjoy being with folks with ADHD. There's a lot about ADHD that I relate to very personally. And yet, you know, I found that because of the unique way that my brain is wired, I often kind of paired well with ADHD brands to kind of create systems that worked for them. So eventually, that became my thing and my passion and where I spent all my time.
So you're, as you said, your husband has ADHD, you relate to a lot of the things ADHD related, but you also do not have ADHD, yourself. The honest truth is, I have no frickin clue. Right? Because there are a lot of things about I think I'm somewhere in the messy middle. There are a lot of things about ADHD that I very strongly relate to, there are some things that I definitely don't on a personal level. And at this point, I'm kind of can't really be tested, right? Like, at this point in my career like it, no tests would be valid on me and say more about that. Why would that be because I know all the tests, right? Like I done them all. I've seen them all. I know the answers to them all. So I find the messy middle as being the place that feels most authentic to me. I do not feel fully neurotypical but I also do not feel it feels like it doesn't do the ADHD experience justice when I identify as ADHD either, right? I'm comfortably uncomfortable in the messy middle.
I'm actually like, kind of fascinated with what you're saying here for kind of personal reasons. So over the last kind of month or so, there's been some things that I've kind of become aware of that has been really making me question if I it actually might also be on the autism spectrum, which is me a little bit of a little bit of a mindfuck. Because I've worked with autism for so long and, and I've always related to certain features of it and kind of like, yeah, this speech, we relate to features. And wait a minute, maybe there's more to just relating to some of the features. Maybe there's actually more going on. So it's been a really sort of ground shifting question that I've been sort of asking myself, and I'm probably going to be pursuing an actual diagnosis. So I can very much appreciate being in that kind of messy middle space around that being that, you know, working in that in the field. I think like, Wait a minute. Me too. Maybe. That's a That's a fun space to be in.
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
So, in some of the things that you sort of talked about, you mentioned, when we first talked about, like, the regulatory differences, like what do you mean by that?
Regulatory differences have ADHD brains?
Well, for you, I think, for myself, yeah, for yourself. Yeah. So
I like to think of ADHD brains, as you know, having kind of like on off switches, right. And our typical brain would have a whole bunch of dimmer switches and an ADHD brain would be a whole bunch of on off switches. And it's much more comfortable in extremes. And that is something that I very much relate to that I operate much more comfortably in extremes you asked me earlier during soundcheck what I had for breakfast, and I said, I was doing intermittent fasting. The reason I do that, I am much more comfortable in extremes, right? Like I would rather eat or not eat. I don't like the whole, like, I have to meter this out and be moderate about it. I don't like that, that that doesn't work. Well, for me. It's harder, right? A lot of times it is harder. Yeah. And so that middle ground, I think it's really hard to find. And that is something that is very true for me. And it's also something that, you know, is very true for ADHD parents.
Now, when you say this on off switch, because I, when I was first diagnosed with ADHD over 20 years ago, one of the ways that I sort of thought about it was sort of having this faulty on off switch that like, it's sometimes just as hard as it is to kind of turn on and to activate, it could be equally as hard to turn off and to stop and kind of transition. Are you talking about more than activation stopping when you talk about having these on off switches? Yeah, so
I think of our brains as having multiple switches, right. So we have activation, we have energy, we have focus, we have volume, we have all these different things that either that for ADHD brains kind of go all in or all out. And sometimes it can feel mysterious as to which which end of that equation that's going to land on, and that neurotypical brands tend to be able to find that just right in the middle, much more easily. Classic is a good example is that an ADHD kid in a classroom, tries to whisper to the person next to them and can't get that volume, right, and the teacher hears every single time, whereas the neurotypical kid next to, you know, does it just fine. So for all of our brain functions, I think we have these different types of switches. And the ADHD brain tends to kind of operate in those extremes and the neurotypical brain in them in the middle more easily.
I think a lot of listeners are very much relating to that right now. And a lot of a lot of probably head nodding. So you went from primarily doing the assessment and diagnosis to doing more ADC management treatment? What are some of the things that you really look at when you are working with folks with ADHD, I like to think of there being three components to the ADHD experience, there's the regulatory bits, kind of on off switches, and then there's the practical, right, and that's kind of how those on off switches show up in everyday life. So sometimes I think of that as like the over part of the iceberg. The regulatory is underneath and what what people feel but don't necessarily see on the outside. The practical is, of course, all the procrastination and the time management, you know, all the all the ways that that on off switch shows up and often rubs against, you know, our neurotypical world. And then the third part is the emotional and the emotional is in part due to the regulatory right because emotions also tend to happen in this kind of on off sort of way, but then also really comes from living in a world that's not really built to support and celebrate an ADHD brain, and the shame and the discomfort and everything that comes from that. And so when I'm working with folks, I'm always trying to look at all three of those. You know, a lot of times people come with one or the other as their primary concern. But if we If we ignore the other two completely, inevitably one of them kind of like drags the other ones down, that they can drag each other down or drag each other up, right. And so I always want to be mindful of all three and how they interconnect.
So when you're working with your clients, do you have like, is it generally they come to you with what, here's what's going on in my life when I need help? Or you do more of a structured approach to these, here's the things that we can go over and kind of work through it. How do you how do you do that work?
So we tend to work with a structure, the very beginning, and then we go where people need us to go, right? So we have, we have a very structured process in the beginning of our work that helps us kind of get the lay of the land and see where the areas are. But we always want to start with what people are bringing to us, right? Like, if you come to me, and you say, I really need help with x, and I'm like, well, that's great. But I want to do you know, y over here, that's really annoying. And like, I came for x, you know, if you go to the doctor, and you're like, you know, my ear is hurting, and they're like, great, but I want to work on your toe, it's like, well, thanks. So we start where people are, for sure. But the process, the process that we do at the beginning kind of helps us get a lay of the land, we do something called a baseline System Assessment, which kind of looks at what are all the systems you have in place? What have you tried, What haven't you tried? What's your history with it? What are your feelings about these things, and it looks at kind of it's as if we were had, you know, this bird's eye view of what's going on in your present day life. That helps us see kind of where the vulnerabilities might be see where the areas where that might require more structure, more support. And so that helps us out on the practical level. And as we're talking about that, the regulatory and the emotional tend to kind of come along.
Absolutely. It's when like in my coaching groups, and one of the things that I often say is that like, when we are learning time management strategies and planning skills, and like, when you have ADHD, it is never just about time management skills and planning skills. Like the emotional part of it is so palpable in session. And so it's what I love doing group because it normalizes this, like, oh God, because it's it's not just about planning the week, it's about all the stories we've, you know, have built up over the years about, I've tried this, like 10,000 times, and this hasn't really worked for me. So why is my going to feel that this is gonna be any different? Right. And that's a real feeling to work through.
Yeah, right. Yeah, for sure. So I know that, you know, big feelings are a big part of ADHD. So what I want to do, right after we take a break is sort of dive into, you know, kind of acknowledging what are these big feelings with ADHD look like? Maybe how they're different from, you know, other disorders, where emotional self-regulation is a key part of that disorder. And then some of the tools and strategies that people can really use to really help ground themselves a little bit and turn the volume down on the intensity of those emotions so they can actually do the things they are wanting and intending on doing. So Marcy, we're gonna take a quick break and we will be right back. Support for this podcast comes from ADHD-rewired coaching and accountability groups learn more at coaching rewired.com Are you looking for a supportive space where you can also gain practical skills, develop emotional acceptance, and take action on your good intentions? Does it feel like your ADHD holds you back from achieving your most important goals? Coaching can help go to coaching rewired.com
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All right, we are back with Marcy Caldwell. Art, Marcy. So how do we know the difference between the emotional storms and the emotional regulation challenges that are so often seen with ADHD? And say, the emotional storms and emotional regulation challenges that come with other disorders? You know, things like autism, or even like borderline personality disorder, or bipolar disorder? How do you weed those apart? And doesn't matter?
That's a really great question. And I love the end of your question because I think that's really important, too. Does it matter? Yes, kind of, it depends. To some degree, we're going to treat the symptoms, or we're going to help support the difference, right? Whatever is going on, we want to help with what's going on, we're going to help with the struggle, it can help to understand where it comes from, both in terms of the tools that we use and the lens that we see those tools through. So for example, you know, for years, particularly women with ADHD have been misdiagnosed as bipolar or borderline personality disorder, right? Men have to, but I think women in greater numbers, and they have been treated that that that was emotional storms have been treated with some of the tools that we use to treat the emotional storms of ADHD. But without the understanding of how the ADHD brain works, therefore less effective and more shame-inducing, right? Because when we understand more about how we got to where we are, we're more able to give ourselves some compassion more able to give ourselves the room to have this just be what I am, you know, this is this is the way my brain works, rather than this is a terrible thing about who I am, right? So I am very careful in my diagnosis, I'm very slow in my diagnosis, I think there's a lot of harm that can come in misdiagnosis. And at the same time, you know, even while I'm being slow, we can still work on on what's happening. Right? In terms of how do we differentiate? A lot of what I look at for ADHD brains is a timeline of the mood and the mood storms, right? For example, ADHD brains tend to have large emotions in response to things like rejection, failure, perceived rejection, perceived failure, for tested failure, right? Like, it can just be a long list, and then I'm never gonna get through this and then that simulates a storm, right? And from somebody else's perspective, they may not put two and two together, they may not see that list, you know, and it can seem like it comes from out of nowhere. But when you kind of really go if you get really detailed in Okay, so what happened there where what were you looking at what was going on? What were you thinking about as you're sitting at the at your desk, right? Like, then we can start to see where that storm originated. And then equally, the positive mood and the you know, what I call like the spark leanness that can come with ADHD is equally kind of triggered by success by positive feedback, right? By connection by another person's energy, right? Like these are all things that kind of trigger that up. And that up, unfortunately, has often been misdiagnosed as kind of a hypomanic episode. But it isn't necessarily sometimes it's just like, I'm just happy and it was just like, very in the emotion. Sometimes they say that ADHD brains are like fish bowls, and that the emotion is like you put a little dye packet in that fishbowl and all of a sudden the water is whatever that color is, right? And so if that water is suddenly happy, then I'm really happy and all things are painted happy. And if that water is suddenly angry, then all things are painting Right. And so when we do a timeline when we really kind of start to see where that originated, that often helps in that in that diagnosis.
And why does that matter? Like why does God is like understanding that the antecedent comes externally for the storm, when we're looking at ADHD compared to other things, differential diagnosis. Why does that matter?
Yeah. So for a, let's say, if we're doing a differential between bipolar and ADHD, the antecedent is often more internal, and often kind of more chemically related, if we're doing that. In bipolar, yes, sorry. That's also true for let's say, PMDD, postmenstrual, I mean, premenstrual dysphoria disorder. When it's a more hormonally related and more neurotransmitter related issue, then we're going to look at something that's not going to be as easily defined by an external stimuli. If we're differentiating between borderline personality disorder. And this is where things get really like all of us. It's messy, right? And this is why we got slow, because somebody who has bipolar disorder will often have a reason that their brains stuck to that felt like the trigger, right, but that the mood actually kind of starts a little bit before that trigger. And then the brain looks for the trigger. And that's just our brain's natural sight, kind of sense makings.
For bipolar disorder. Yeah,
yeah. If we look at borderline personality disorder, they tend to have kind of large emotional storms around perceived rejection or being left, right, kind of rupture and relationships. So lots of overlap there with ADHD, right. But they're not going to show it for the to do list. So we have to look at multiple storms and see, are they centering on one particular stimuli? Or is it multiple? And are these emotions kind of always happening in this on off sort of way?
How much? When are you looking at specifically with ADHD? How much do you think that the emotional storms that are sort of triggered by external events are more of a trauma response versus something internally? Or more organically related to just ADHD?
Yeah, so there, there is another very tricky overlap, you know, and I think, to some degree, we want to differentiate between those what psychologists called Big T traumas versus little T traumas, right? And that if we're talking a big T, trauma, ie, rape, murder, war sorts of things, then it can have those kinds of that same kind of kind of flooding that can happen with the what are called little T traumas, which isn't to dismiss them at all, because little T traumas are very real and have very big effect, then those are a little bit more, we actually start this question over. Of course, sorry. Yeah, I need you to ask. I will. I will try. Okay, thanks.
So when you look at sort of the emotional storms, what we see with ADHD is more externally triggered, whether it's the to do list or you know, failures precede failures. How do you differentiate between that sort of organically ADHD related and a trauma response? Because I think that a huge part of, especially for adults, is that sort of complex PTSD, that trauma by 1000, paper cuts type of response. So like, how do you differentiate don't like those? And again, does that matter?
Yes. So I think this is really in one place. So I do always want to do a differential with PTSD, right? Because if there is what we call re experiencing symptoms, if we're, you know, really flooded by a experience that's happening over and over and being recreated in our brains over and over again, as if it's happening right now, then that needs to be treated in a slightly different way. If how it's showing up as more in that CPTSD sort of way with the 1000 paper cuts, then that then gets to that point of we're probably going to treat it the same way that gets it to the point of this is what the emotional experience of ADHD is right now. And I say right now because I'm, I'm hopeful that we could help to make this better in future generations. But right now, this is very much the experience, that it has been a lifetime of being told But you're wrong a lifetime of really feeling like there's something at my core that is wrong with me, rather than something different about how my brain works. And therefore, this is what we do this is, you know, we're always going to be looking at these two parts of the emotional experience, the history, as well as the regulation. And we're always going to be playing on both sides of that spectrum.
What I would love to do is take one more quick break, and then come back, I would love for us to kind of dive into specific strategies for how do we navigate these emotional storms. Because we know that with ADHD, we have so many good intentions. And there's so many different ways that our intentions don't turn into action, emotions being one of the big culprits for that. So let's want to come back, let's kind of dive into some strategies that we can work on when emotions are getting the best of us and PhD is winning as a result, so we will be right back. If you want to listen to this podcast without interruption you can enjoy full episodes aren't interrupted, I go into ADHD rewired that comm slash Patreon and become a patron for just $5 a month or more, find all the perks at the website, including our monthly coaching calls for only $25 a month. Thank you so much for your support at ADHD rewired.com/patreon. And if you're looking for an online co working space that's open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, then we've got you covered in our 24/7 Drop in room in our adult study hall membership community at adult study hall.com There you can take advantage of our weekly themed and guided sessions, the obsessions with cleaning and decluttering your most dreaded tasks writing creative work, and more join our ADHD friendly body doubling community to get those two dues fed done. That's adult study hall.com. All right, we are back with Marcy Caldwell are Marcy. So let's talk strategies. I think everyone's ADHD is a little bit of a different flavor for everyone. Right? But we all experience his emotions in different degrees. You know, we even when we just look at procrastination, procrastination, most of the time, it's just a self-regulatory strategy. We're trying to alleviate some kind of uncomfortable feeling. So let's How do you help your clients, you created this whole program called meltdown to mastery. So talk a little bit about some of the skills and the things that you work on with your clients that we can really start using trying to use today,
I believe in the power of understanding. And I think that's probably one of my greatest beliefs is that kind of guides how I work. And so I feel like when we have a better understanding of where we are emotionally, we're more able to respond and that, that our response really needs to be about how intense our emotions are, rather than what we're feeling necessarily, right. Because emotions come in 5 trillion different flavors, right? If we had a different response for every single different emotion and every situation that that emotion might exist in, right like this, this is a never ending number of responses, which is way too complicated for any brain to keep track of. And so I like to keep things simple. So I like to think about kind of a motion meter that goes from green to yellow to orange to red, right, and the red emotions are when it has taken over our body. And our brain is actually really no longer on board, our brain, at least the higher order thinking of our brain has shut off and we are fully in our body and our body is screaming to get out of there. And we will do anything and we will destroy all of our values, intentions and goals to get out to make it go away. So our response in red is very different than our response, even an orange or yellow or green in orange. We're very much in our head, right like the body. It's no longer a body takeover that we haven't kind of been hijacked in the same way. We're in our head. We're mulling things over it's really hard to distract us from it like it's very present, but it's no longer that kind of red level screaming, throwing things right. Like we're no longer hijacked by the Sena monster. But it's torture some because we're so in our head and it's so all we can think about. Once we get into yellow, we're a little bit more. We're what I call or not what I call famous psychologist long before me, called wise Brain, right? Where we have this both access to our thinking selves, our rational part of ourselves, but also access to our emotions. So we get the wisdom of both. We're able to be distracted at this point, like we're able to go do something else. But we're also able to think about this. And we're able to kind of call up the emotion of it.

Yeah, specifically with ADHD, how much do you think that the emotional storms that are sort of triggered by external events are more a trauma response versus something internally? Or more organically related to just ADHD? Yeah, so there, there is another very tricky overlap, you know, and I think, to some degree, we want to differentiate between those what psychologists called Big T traumas versus little T traumas, right? And that if we're talking a big T, trauma, ie, rape, murder, war sorts of things, then it can have those kinds of that same kind of kind of flooding that can happen with the what are called little T traumas, which isn't to dismiss them at all, because little T traumas are very real and have very big effect, then those are a little bit more, we actually start this question over, of course, sorry. Yeah, I need you to ask. I will. I will try. Okay, thanks. So when you look at sort of the emotional storms, what we see with ADHD is more externally triggered, whether it's the to do list or you know, failures precede failures. How do you differentiate between that sort of organically ADHD related and a trauma response? Because I think that a huge part of, especially for adults, is that sort of complex PTSD, that trauma by 1000, paper cuts type of response. So like, how do you differentiate don't like those? And again, does that matter? Yes. So I think this is really in one place. So I do always want to do a differential with PTSD, right? Because if there is what we call re experiencing symptoms, if we're, you know, really flooded by a experience that's happening over and over and being recreated in our brains over and over again, as if it's happening right now, then that needs to be treated in a slightly different way. If how it's showing up as more in that CPTSD sort of way with the 1000 paper cuts, then that then gets to that point of, we're probably going to treat it the same way that gets it to the point of this is what the emotional experience of ADHD is right now. And I say right now, because I'm, I'm hopeful that we could help to make this better in future generations. But right now, this is very much the experience, that it has been a lifetime of being told that you're wrong, a lifetime of really feeling like there's something at my core that is wrong with me, rather than something different about how my brain works. And therefore, this is what we do this is, you know, we're always going to be looking at these two parts of the emotional experience, the history, as well as the regulation. And we're always going to be playing on both sides of that spectrum.

Where I would love to do is take one more quick break, and then come back, I would love for us to kind of dive into specific strategies for how do we navigate these emotional storms because we know that with ADHD, we have so many good intentions. And there's so many different ways that our intentions don't turn into action, emotions being one of the big culprits for that. So let's, we're gonna come back, let's kind of dive into some strategies that we can work on when emotions are getting the best of us and PhD is winning as a result, so we will be right back.

Here do you want to listen to this podcast without interruption you can enjoy full episodes aren't interrupted, I go into ADHD rewired that calm slash Patreon and become a patron for just $5 a month or more. Find all the perks at the website, including our monthly coaching calls for only $25 a month. Thank you so much for your support at ADHD rewired.com/patreon. And if you're looking for an online co working space that's open 24 hours a day, seven days a week, then we've got you covered in our 24/7 Drop in room in our adult study hall membership community at adult study hall.com There you can take advantage of our weekly themed and guided sessions, the obsessions with cleaning and decluttering your most dreaded tasks writing creative work, and more. Join our ADHD friendly body doubling community to get those to dues fit done that adult study hall.com

All right, we are back with Marcy Caldwell, our Marcy. So let's talk strategies.

I think everyone's ADHD is was a little bit of a different flavor for everyone, right? But we all experiences emotions in different different degrees. You know, we even when we just look at procrastination, procrastination, most of the time, it's just a self regulatory strategy. We're trying to alleviate some kind of uncomfortable feeling. So let's How do you help your clients, you created this whole program called meltdown to mastery. So talk a little bit about some of the skills and the things that you work on with your clients that we can really start using trying to use today.

I believe in the power of understanding, and think that's probably one of my greatest beliefs is that kind of guides how I work. And so I feel like when we have a better understanding of where we are emotionally, we're more able to respond, and then that our response really needs to be about how intense our emotions are, rather than what we're feeling necessarily, right, because emotions come in 5 trillion different flavors, right? If we had a different response for every single different emotion, and every situation that that emotion might exist in, right like this, this is a never ending number of responses, which is way too complicated for any brain to keep track of. And so I like to keep things simple.

So I like to think about kind of a emotion meter that goes from green to yellow to orange to red, right, and the red emotions are when it has taken over our body. And our brain is actually really no longer on board, our brain, at least the the higher order thinking of our brain has shut off and we are fully in our body and our body is screaming to get out of there. And we will do anything, and we will destroy all of our values, intentions and goals, to get out to make it go away. So our response in red is very different than our response, even in orange, or yellow, or green and orange. We're very much in our head, right? Like the body, it's no longer a body takeover that we haven't kind of been hijacked in the same way. We're in our head, we're mulling things over, it's really hard to distract us from it like it's very present. But it's no longer that kind of red level screaming, throwing things, right. Like, we're no longer hijacked by this kind of monster. But it's torture some because we're so in our head. And it's so all we can think about. Once we get into yellow, we're a little bit more were what I call or not what I call famous psychologist long before me, called widescreen, right? Where we have this both access to our thinking selves, our rational part of ourselves, but also access to our emotions. So we get the wisdom of both. We're able to be distracted at this point, like we're able to go do something else. But we're also able to think about this. And we're able to kind of call up the emotion of it.

No worries when you say able to be distracted. Are you saying that? Sometimes the intentional use of distraction can be a tool? Yes, for sure. Well, that's great news. Let's talk a little bit more about that.

Yeah, so I actually think that intentionally use of distraction. I use more for kind of surfing through orange, that orange when we're so in our heads, if we can, and this is particularly true for ADHD, Brian said, are living in the fishbowl and so like, if we can intentionally drop another di packet in there, let's do it. Also, if we can keep ourselves busy, as our bodies are kind of processing what's going on? Let's do it. I recommend to people that they have distraction menus, that they have a menu of things that they can go to, not to make themselves feel better necessarily, right. Because like it feels terrible, let's just, we just own that it's gonna feel terrible. But what can I do to keep myself busy while I'm feeling terrible. And while that feeling is kind of like subsiding, so I think of orange as how my mom used to treat me when I was sick, right, like, so I had a cold and wasn't gonna get better necessarily, depending on what she did or didn't do. But I needed to kind of get through the discomfort of it. So she would put me on the couch, she would comfort me with my favorite foods and a blanket and she turned on the TV to distract me to get me through that period of time. Right. So these like distraction menus and soothing menus are things that people can do to get themselves through the period of time they have to feel this feeling.

So what's where's the that the the distraction to sort of short circuit in the sense that the De escalating emotional response, or is that stop? And where does sort of just like avoidance? Again, really good question, it is hard to kind of get that I think intentional distraction happens in orange avoidance happens in yellow, right, because in yellow, we actually have, we have our higher order thinking online, we're capable of responding to a problem, we're capable of addressing a situation in orange, we're not really capable yet, because we're too flooded by it. When we do this, because we're flooded when we do this in order to kind of protect those values, intentions and goals, and stay busy while we're in this place, then that is intentional when we do it, because we just don't feel like dealing with it, but we're capable of dealing with it. That's avoidance. And then we make sure that when we are using that intentional distraction, that we also remember to come back to it and to attach to deal with the issue. It's a really good question. And I I find that for all of those sorts of things. We need things outside of ourselves, right? That it can't be counting on our brains and our systems to return to something that's uncomfortable. And like why would we do that? That makes a terrible idea? Because that's what happens.

I know but it's not fun and it hurts. True is story. Yes.
Growth never I have yet to have an experience from like, this huge growth I've experienced felt so good going through it.
Now know, I keep I keep pushing for that. That pleasant growth? Yeah. So in the meantime, how do we again, like let's really looking at the strategy. So when we're in that more the orange, you said, we're taking that intentional timeout, it's helpful to have this sort of externalize that cue to come back to the actual issue. Well, what else especially for people who may be feel like they go from zero to 60, real fast, like they don't even feel the gradual build up. Like what kind of strategies can be helpful for people that experience that. I mean, I think that's most people with ADHD, right, like their dyslexia is, is the way most ADHD brains work. And so they go from green to red.
And I mean, the number of times I've talked about the motion meter, and people have been like, great, but I don't have orange and yellow, like, I have green, and I have red, and then I go green, and then I go red, just flip flop between the two, read the response and read really, again, I like to keep things simple, really is get space, right? Get space, separate yourself from the situation in any way possible, ideally, physically, but sometimes we can't get physical space. And so we have to kind of do that in a mental way, which is way harder. Ideally, you get space, whether that's excuse yourself to go to the bathroom. We don't have to like tell people, we're getting space, although sometimes that's important, too, right? Like with your partner, even with your kids. I mean, the number of times I tell my kids like Mommy needs a minute, or Mommy needs to take a timeout. These are all phrases that I have uttered many times and remodeling by the way, exactly. It's a very acceptable thing to do, right? And it's taking care of yourself. And when we get space, we allow the process to unfold, right? When we get space from the situation that's triggering that red feeling. Because that red feeling is basically our fight flight system on Activate. When we get space, we allow our our systems to say, Oh, I'm safe. Oh, I can start to deescalate right. But as long as we're in the situation, our systems don't know that. And our systems are on Activate and it's gonna stay on activate until we make it go away. And normally we make it go away by like smashing through it in one way or another. Yeah. Or down. Yeah, yeah. So step one is always headspace. So Missy, you had mentioned about the the power of understanding in the emotions. So what happens and how do you help clients who relate they identify the green, they identify the red, like everything else in between, they literally have no idea. Like they don't know what they're feeling. How do you help them develop that understanding? I find that the more we talk about it, the more we work with it. The more you start to look at it, you start to see the gradations that part of it is that along the path that an ADHD brain takes from green to red, it does pass through yellow and orange
But because if we go back to the switches, right, one of those switches is awareness. So it's not that emotions necessarily are on a switch. But that awareness is and so that those emotions are growing. But the awareness doesn't switch on until it hits a certain level. And the more we talk about it, the more we examine, the more people actually reflect, then they're more able to move that awareness switch earlier and start to intervene earlier and identify earlier, but that it requires a lot of continual reflection, which is, you know, is not the way in ADHD brains usually built a lot of intentional work that needs to be done. Exactly. For that to happen. And we, you know, we look at, like the work that Russell Barkley did recently about life expectancy, but looking at one of the things that I think was, should have not miss, but like, was the key finding there was the outliers around like, alright, so you're saying that there's this, you know, what was it? I think it was like a 13 year average, like shorter life expectancy, people with ADHD likely was freaking depressing. Right? Like, alright, so what's for the people that didn't actually have that? What's the difference? And it's conscientiousness, and all conscientiousness? Absolutely, you know, one of the big five sort of personality traits. But I also think that conscientiousness can be built, we can learn how to be more conscientious and to be that's great news, right? So we can do things like becoming more aware, or even just having better emotional vocabulary to be able to name and identify those feelings. And the radiations of those feelings, I think is so so important. I've worked with a lot of people who, like, I asked how they're feeling. And they're like, Okay, give me another question. Because that one's too hard. Right? It's like, I'm sure you've experienced that, too. And it's like, if you don't know how we're feeling, how do we know what's gonna motivate us? How do we know what's going to activate us to actual action? Where our boundaries around stuff like what don't we want to do? And we understand why we don't want to do that. Because with that understanding, you can actually communicate that and hopefully more effectively, versus just avoiding it, burying your head in the sand and then dealing with the overwhelm of all of that goes along with that. Right?

Yeah, so agree. And I feel like the way conscientiousness is built for ADHD brains is through systems, right that, I think if we rely on kind of building it internally, at least at first, it becomes just kind of a setup for failure and disappointment and more shame. But if we create systems, external structures that prompt and promote the reflection and conscientiousness, then it that can develop into a habit, which can then develop into kind of a personality strength, but that we need to build that scaffolding first while that system is is developing internally.

I love that that phrase of conscientiousness through systems, I think that is key because you know for everything that we want to do that is our intention. That is not our sort of natural inclination, like we need to externalize those cues that our brain is giving us the problems. We can't try to solve it with the same brain, right with the same solution, right? It's yes or externalize that. Alright. Are we are out of time here. Are there any final thoughts that you want to share? And please give me your information on how people can reach you and learn more about kind of work that you're doing.

Final Thoughts is just this has been fun, and thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure. People can reach me my blog adept.org. My practice is rittenhousepsych.com and the courses available on the blog as well.

Excellent. Marcy Caldwell, thank you so much for your time and for sharing the what you have today. Much appreciated. Thank you.

This is Eric Tivers. Thank you for listening, and congratulations for making it to the end. ADHD rewired is more than just a podcast. We are a community focused on learning, growing and connection. The website is ADHD rewired.com. You can find timestamps, summaries and additional resources for each episode, apply to join our free and secret Facebook community. Learn more about our award winning intensive online video based coaching and accountability groups. Join the adult study hall virtual co working membership community find all the other podcasts on the ADHD rewired Podcast Network, sign up for my email newsletter to get exclusive content that you won't hear anywhere else. And these a search tool to find episodes on specific topics. You can do all of this at ADHD rewired.com. While you're there, click on the Patreon button. If you are a regular listener consider making a monthly contribution by becoming a patron. If you are able to financially support my work it will that mean a lot. This show is a free to use listener but it's not free to produce. Plus patrons get cool perks like add free episodes and access to recordings and coaching calls, and $25 a month patrons can join me once a month for a group coaching call. You can follow me on Twitter at Eric tippers. You can like our Facebook page at facebook.com/adhd rewired if you're a coach, therapist or related professional connect with me on linkedin@linkedin.com slash Eric Tim's subscribe to ADHD rewired on a YouTube to see selective interviews and other videos I've made podcasts change lives. You can make a difference in someone's life by spreading the word about this podcast. Mention it in your online communities on Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, or wherever you hang out online. And be sure to share it with your friends, family, your therapists, your coaches, doctors, siblings, parents, and if you your coach, therapist, doctor or ADHD support group leader with like a pack of podcast postcards to handout you can request those at the website ADHD rewired.com. If you're a member of Chad at or any other ADHD support group, please be sure to tell them about this show and all the shows on the ADHD rewired Podcast Network. You can even show them how to download it on their phone. And if you really loved this particular episode, please hit share on your podcast player. I'm only one person and I do count on you to help spread this message. One of the biggest things that you can do to support this podcast and help other people discover it is to leave an honest rating and review on Apple podcasts or any other app that supports reviews. And don't forget to hit subscribe so new episodes are automatically pushed to your favorite podcast app. Looking for more ways to listen and learn. Get a free audiobook and a 30 day free trial at Audible by going to audible trial.com/adhd rewired here is my list of a must listen to audiobooks updated July 2021 nonviolent communication by Marshall Rosenberg attached by Amir Levin and Rachel Heller. Atomic habits by James clear The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Patrick Lencioni Crucial Conversations BY KERRY Patterson, the Coaching Habit, I'm Michael stainer, the body keeps score by Bessel Vander Kolk rest by Alex sesion campaign the five second rule by Mel Robbins make it stick the Science of Successful Learning by Peter Brown the productivity project by Chris Bailey meditation for fidgety skeptics by Dan Harris, change your questions change your life by merrily G Adams I always recommend to my coaches and admin that they read that book. The One Thing by Gary Keller a required reading for all of our coaching group members procrastinate on purpose by Rory Vaden. The four tendencies by Gretchen Rubin, The Art of Asking by Amanda Palmer. And if you're looking for something a little bit more magical, I have fallen in love with the Harry Potter series and the narrator, Jim and Dale is amazing. And of course, if you haven't yet boarded the Brene Brown bus, all of her stuff is great, starting with Gifts of Imperfection, daring, greatly Rising Strong in the power of vulnerability. And if you're an entrepreneur or leader, be sure to check out her book there too. You have something that you would like to share. Click on the podcast have ADHD rewired, click the button to be a guest at the top of the page and schedule a 15 minute interview. This is Eric timbers reminding you to keep learning, growing and connecting self care is not selfish. No matter what you get done or don't get done. You are still enough. No matter how hard it feels. We can do hard things, and we don't need to do them in the hardest way possible. Thanks for listening. I'll catch you next week.

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